Abigoliah: Hello, everyone. Welcome to All British Comedy Explained, the podcast where I, Abigoliah, finally learn about all the British comedies I’ve been missing out on. And today we bring you a very special interview with Tim Bentinck.
You might know Tim as an actor who has been in The Thick of It. He’s in episode one, first 15 minutes, and a couple of specials after that. And also maybe his most well-known work is he is the voice of David Archer for the last 40 years.
Tom: Yeah, you’re more likely to recognise the voice than the face in Tim’s case, but he has had an extraordinary career. He crops up in all sorts of places.
And what I really admire about him is he’s got a really keen sense of comedy, but he’s one of those people where it’s really hard to catch him acting. Like, he’s never showing off. He’s never putting it all on the surface. It’s always really truthful, detailed, subtle work. And he makes it look easy. And you and I both know it’s not.
Abigoliah: Yeah. And after our conversation with him, now I understand why. Because he’s never acting, is he?
Tom: That’s right. He’s reacting.
Abigoliah: He’s just an absolute gem of a human being. And we were so happy to talk to him about The Thick of It and other things he’s worked on, including your play Brexit. So shall we get into the interview?
Tom: Let’s go.
Tom: All right, let’s have a chat about The Thick of It and other things besides. Tim, hello.
Tim: Hello.
Tom: Tell me about working with Armando Iannucci, because I think you might have worked with him before The Thick of It. Is that right?
Tim: Yeah. I was in quite a few of his Armando Iannucci Shows, which is how he kind of announced himself on the world stage, really, which were absurd and surreal. And nobody had ever done anything like that before.
Tom: Yeah. Those shows were incredible.
Tim: And, yeah, none of us kind of got it. You know, at the time we didn’t know what we were doing. We just did what we were told.
I found myself at one point being a vicar up in a pulpit. And Armando said — he said, “Do you play guitar?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “Would you sing us a song from the pulpit?” I said, “What song?” He said, “Well, not one that, you know, we can’t get the rights for.”
So I said, “Well, shall I sing one of mine?” And he said, “Yeah, fine.” So I sang one of my songs literally without any rehearsal, just in the pulpit, you know, banging away like that and going, what on earth is this about?
But as it turned out, there’s all the congregation and there’s one woman who goes, “Look at you. Look at you.” And she’s in love with me. And what happens is the entire congregation fall in love with the vicar.
And after the service, they go off for coffee together. All together. So the entire congregation of about 20 people. And then they all go back to his place afterwards.
And there’s — cut to the morning, where I’m standing in a queue for the loo, and I’ve been in bed with the entire congregation. I mean, it’s the most absurd thing you’ve ever, ever heard in your life.
And then another time we were in the retirement home for middle-aged people, if you’ve come across that one. And it’s basically — the conceit was that once you reach middle age, that’s it. You know, it’s all over.
Abigoliah: Yeah.
Tim: And again, it was so, so weird. But funny. And that was Armando’s, you know, “Here I am.” That was how he started.
And then the next thing I knew, I was invited to be on The Thick of It. And I’m in the first 15 minutes.
Tom: Yeah.
Tim: Before the title comes up. You know, I get the sack and then it goes, The Thick of It. You know, that’s it. I mean, I come back for a couple of sort of summer specials here and there. But yeah, I mean, the process of doing that and the process of working with Armando is unique.
Abigoliah: When you’re making stuff that you go into and you’re like, this is bonkers, I don’t — I don’t really understand what we’re doing, but it’s fun, does that make you nervous or excited as an actor? Are you like, we really have something here? Or are you like, I don’t know how this is going to be received? What’s your thought process as you’re making stuff like that?
Tim: Well, I wasn’t nervous, funnily enough. I mean, I do love improv. You know, I’m not very good at it, but I have done it.
And over the years, I do a lot of a thing called ADR, which is where you’re basically being the voice of the extras in the background, which involves you just making up stuff and doing it over and over and over again.
And, you know, Tom’s written the book about improv, and all of the rules in that apply. You know, things like “Yes, and”. You know, that’s one of the best things in the world. And, you know, to never say no, always say yes. Those little tiny rules that steer you through.
I didn’t know any of that when I did The Thick of It, and I didn’t know — I mean, I was just blind.
Shall I tell you the process of how it—
Abigoliah: Yes, yes.
Tim: So the process was that we all arrive for a read-through and we hadn’t been sent a script. So then: there you go. There’s a script. And so I don’t know who my character is, I don’t know anything about him, but there’s a script.
So we read the lines. And then Armando said, “Okay, so now if you go to the other side of the room and just leave the script behind and let’s just go do that scene again without the script.”
You know, so that’s what you remember of one read-through. And so then he — and Peter Capaldi is saying to me, “What do you make of this?” I don’t know. I have no idea what’s going on. And he’s the sweetest, sweetest man.
Tom: Had you met him before? Did you know him before?
Tim: No.
Tom: So you’re meeting for the first time and having to play this incredibly toxic scene together?
Tim: Yeah.
Tom: While both wondering what kind of madhouse you’ve entered.
Tim: Yeah. And Peter goes from being, you know, the sweetest, nicest guy you’ve ever met to being Malcolm Tucker. And, you know, in all his rabid Glaswegian-ness.
And there’s Jesse Armstrong, who’s the writer. He was sitting there. So as we tried to recreate this thing, and obviously we were making up lines because we hadn’t got the script, anything that was any good, Jesse would write down.
And so we went through that, and that was the end of that. And then we went home.
And then about a week later we got sent a script through the post, which was mostly the original script, but with our bits that we’d come up with, that we’d thought of, included in the script.
And so then you turn up on day one, and the way they shoot it is unlike anything else because it’s not lit. It’s all handheld. So you’ve got two handheld cameras in a room that’s unlit, and there’s no continuity because, if you think, Armando started in radio, and he was cutting almost with his eyes shut. So what sounded right was in. And even if there was a jump that made no sense in terms of continuity, that stayed in.
And so there we are, and I said to Peter, “Have you learnt it?” He said, “Oh Christ, yes, absolutely.”
And so we did this scene, and I come in from outside and then go into the room. And I’ve looked at it since, and his first line is, “Oh, he’s useless. He’s as useless as a marzipan dildo. Oh, sorry, I have to go now. The minister’s just come in.”
And at the time I was so concentrating on what I was doing, I wasn’t listening to him. You know, I thought, oh, he’s on the phone. So I didn’t know that “he’s as useless as a marzipan dildo” referred to me. I didn’t get that, you know.
Tom: So that probably works.
Tim: No. Nor would Cliff. So it was perfect. Exactly. Cliff wouldn’t have heard that. No acting required whatsoever.
So we then went through the scene and did it, and we knew our lines and, you know, we did it. And then at the end of that — I think maybe we did two takes, perhaps — anyway, after that, Armando said, “Right, we’ve got that. So let’s loosen this up a bit here.”
And he handed me a piece of paper with some other lines on it, and he handed Peter a piece of paper with some other lines on it, and he said, “Just use those if you want, or not.”
And so then what happens is you’re then doing the script that you’ve learned, and then suddenly out of the blue a line comes that you’ve never heard before, which is perfect improv thing, because it’s the old adage, which is the only thing I ever do in my life, is acting is the art of reacting.
Tom: Yeah.
Tim: You’ve got to listen. You know, the only thing you have to do as an actor is listen to what the other person is saying and then react truthfully to that. It’s all reaction.
And so I did. And things like — and so Cliff says, “Oh, it’s not fucking transport.” No, he said, “It’s not transport. You know, transport is trucks.” And I go, “I know what fucking transport is.”
And you cut to Peter’s face, which — and it’s been mentioned on social media — is the first appearance of the Malcolm Tucker death stare.
And I remember it so well, sitting there receiving this look of hatred, this pure hatred of a working-class Glaswegian man for a toff, you know, for a—
Tom: Posh—
Tim: Public schoolboy. And the eyes narrowed like that. And I remember being scared. You know, really seriously scared.
And then throwing in lines like — he gave me this line saying, “Scope? What do you mean, scope? You mean like putting a cat up my arse and having a wank?” Right?
So I thought, I’ll throw that in, because then in the future anybody, you know, quoting David Archer is going to be saying, “You said that,” forever. You can’t take that away.
But yeah, that was the way that it worked. And that’s how he works, is that he hands you these lines and you have about a minute to look at them and think of them and then put them to one side. And if you can remember it in the middle of it and it kind of works, then you throw that line in.
And that is the secret, I think, to why it’s so good, because it looks like improv and it’s sort of improv, but it’s sort of structured, semi-scripted improv.
And that’s the way he worked from, you know, all the way through the whole series. It was so exciting. And I, you know, I wish I hadn’t had the sack in the first place.
Abigoliah: Well, at least it was written in for your character. Like, you — Tim — didn’t get sacked. It was how the character was developed.
Tim: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Abigoliah: But on set with this way of working, where it’s half improvised and half scripted, did you guys have to do a lot of retakes? Was there, like, a lot of corpsing or just, like, kind of getting thrown out of it for a minute? Or were you guys able to, like, stay in the moment?
Tim: No, we were able to stay in the moment, and there wasn’t any corpsing at all.
There was — you know, I was so kind of intimidated by Peter. You know, not him as an actor, but him as a character. You know, he did this switch. It’s not like he was doing method acting, you know, or being like that all the time at all. He was sweet and charming and lovely and then, you know, “Turn over.” Bang! Total, total change.
And he’s a fantastic actor. And he’s scary, you know? Malcolm Tucker is scary. You don’t have to act that when you’re being shouted at and told off and everything. You know, that’s kind of real. I’m not putting anything on. My heart was beating.
Abigoliah: Yeah.
Tim: And that shows, you know, when I watch it back. I go, yeah, I remember.
And also thinking, I don’t think I’m being very funny here, you know? Because I couldn’t think of anything witty to say. But that was what’s so great. You know, that’s what Cliff did. Cliff didn’t know what to say. And so it all worked.
And very — he’s very keen on— I remember once, one of The Armando Iannucci Shows, it was about the knife-attack reunion. And it was about all the guys who’d knife-attacked other people, and it was a kind of a charming, you know, wine-and-cheese party, and they all meet up.
“Do you remember that, when I came up to you and I stabbed you in the back?”
“Oh God, yeah, that was so funny.”
And I was the mayor of some Yorkshire town, so I thought I’d do it Yorkshire, you know? I thought because he was the mayor, so I’d do it like that.
And Armando said, “No.” He said, “I don’t like characters.”
That’s a really good little line there: “I don’t like characters.”
I mean, I ended up doing it a bit Yorkshire because that’s how I learned it, so I don’t think he was very pleased with that. He wanted me to just use my own voice.
But that was a giveaway, that he doesn’t like acting, you know, and characters and putting things on. He wants you to be just you, really, you know, and how you would react.
And I’m, you know, I’m all the way with that. I think that’s a wonderful way of working.
Tom: I think that’s what’s so interesting about The Thick of It. It’s this extraordinary blend of, on the one hand, this incredibly florid dialogue that no actual person would ever say—
Tim: Yeah.
Tom: —with this amazing naturalistic acting and shooting style that somehow makes that florid dialogue suddenly seem believable.
Tim: Yes, it is. It is extraordinary. He’s got the guy who’s up in Yorkshire, I think it is, who writes, you know, particular lines for—
Tom: Swearing consultant.
Tim: Swearing consultant. Yeah.
Abigoliah: I’m not sure how much you know about the conceit of the podcast, but basically Tom shows me British TV that I’ve never seen before. So, like, when he showed me The Thick of It, it was the first time I watched it.
And it’s almost unnerving to watch because it’s like, is it real? Is it—? It feels really real. Like, I’m like, this — this is what it’s like behind the scenes. Now I know because I’ve seen a documentary. And people are like, “That’s a comedy.” And I’m like, it is not. It is real. It must be real.
Tim: Well, I mean, two things. Partly it’s the shooting style and the fact that it’s two handheld cameras. And so it’s faux documentary, you know, it’s shot as though it were a documentary. So that gives it a reality.
Also, I said to — there was a political adviser at the read-through. I can’t think of what his name was. Anyway, I said to him — and, you know, he was a politician — and I said, “It’s not like this really, is it?” And he said, “Oh, it’s much worse.”
Abigoliah: Wow.
Tim: That was interesting because there’s all these people, these politicians, who, you know, all you see of them is what they present to camera in interviews and they, you know, mind their Ps and Qs and they’re polite and, you know, generally. But in the background, it’s that. It’s fucking this and fucking that.
And to find that the reality of what goes on in the corridors of power is like that, you know — or, as he said, it’s even worse.
Martin Sixsmith.
Tom: Oh, yes. Yeah.
And do you feel that you kind of have any special insight into the world of politics because you’ve played ministers and civil servants and so on before? Prime Ministers in my case.
Tim: Oh, in your case, yes. No, but that was after. That was after I used my experience on The Thick of It to become the Prime Minister.
Yes, I find it kind of easy because, in a way, I could have been that person. You know? I mean, I got — you know, went to Harrow. I could have — I had no interest in it whatsoever, but I could have gone into politics.
And so there is, you know, a background that I’ve got which could have led me into that. And, I mean, I would be — you know, if it was like The Thick of It, then it would be really good fun because I’m perfectly happy swearing at people, you know.
But actually having to lie on camera, which is what politicians have to do the entire time, you know, they all have to lie the whole time. It’s deceit. It’s dissembling.
And I suppose that’s what we do as actors as well, but it’s a different kind of lying, really.
Tom: Yes. Well, it’s like the difference between a conman and a magician, isn’t it? The magician says, “Honestly, I’m going to fool you,” and then you’re delighted when that happens.
Tim: Yeah.
Tom: When you’re talking to a conman, you have no idea.
And so likewise, I think because a lot of people like watching Celebrity Traitors at the moment, but a lot of people are sort of suspicious of anyone who might be an actor. But a lot of actors, like you, feel really uncomfortable about deliberately deceiving people and see that as utterly different from what they do on stage and screen.
Tim: Totally different. And, you know, they said in The Traitors — they said about people being intimidated by, you know, actors who they — you know, who are kind of famous.
But watching it, most of the actors who are famous are as uncomfortable as the rest of them. Yes, of course they are, because that’s — you know, we’re human beings and we’re not — we’re not acting. If I were on it, it would be the same thing. I wouldn’t—
Tom: Have you been asked? Are you tempted? Would you like to go?
Tim: Well, I would in some ways, but apart from the fact that Richard E. Grant said that the whole thing was an absolute nightmare because you get stuck in your room in this horrible, you know, like four-star hotel and you haven’t got internet access. You can’t — you know, you haven’t got a phone, you can’t ring home or anything.
He said it was like being institutionalised. I thought, I wouldn’t like to do that.
Abigoliah: I will say, I can understand why Richard E. Grant would be like, “It’s horrible. You don’t have your phone and you can’t ring home.” And I’m like, the books I would get finished reading. Like, just to totally unplug for a couple of weeks, that sounds divine.
But you’re also at work. Like, it’s one thing to be in that situation, like, with your partner or your family and you’ve chosen to unplug.
Tim: Yeah.
Abigoliah: You’re forced to.
Tim: But it’s a good point. You know, you could take your Kindle and you could read anything you ever wanted.
Tom: Yes.
Abigoliah: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Tom: So when you were filming that first scene, really, I mean, as you say, it’s like a ten-minute curtain-raiser for the first episode and thus the series. Did you get a sense of, oh, this is going to change things? People are going to notice this. This is special.
Tim: I think I did, yes. I can’t remember at the time, but I mean, you know, I was a huge admirer of Armando because of The Armando Iannucci Shows, because he was just the most original person I ever worked with.
And the way he worked, I loved. I loved that process, you know. I wanted to continue with it.
And I did think, this is going to be something really special, apart from anything else because Capaldi is, you know, he’s just brilliant in that role.
But, you know, yeah, I did. I really, I really did think.
I mean, I came back for this wonderful thing where I was sitting in the back of a taxi with Jamie, who was the other rabid Glaswegian.
Tom: Oh, yes. I know who you mean. Yes.
Abigoliah: Oh, yeah.
Tim: And he said, “Are you a horse?” And again, this was completely unscripted. I hadn’t got a script, so I didn’t know what was going to— Just, you know, just do it.
“Are you a horse?”
“Sorry?”
“Are you a horse?”
“No. I can categorically say that I’m not a horse.”
“That’s good. That’s good. You’re not a stalking horse.”
And that came out of the blue. And so my reaction was, “Oh.” It was completely true. You know, it was just me going, oh, I see what you’re talking about now.
It’s things like that where nobody knows what’s coming at them, and their reactions are real-time, real reactions. That’s what makes the huge difference between that and scripted drama, where, you know, particularly in theatre, every night you know what’s coming at you.
But even in telly and films, you know the script. So you kind of know what’s going — what are you going to do and undo it.
In The Archers, I try as much as I possibly can to not know what my next line is and to listen to what the person is saying to me and get that, and then look down and refer to something. And then I’ve got a guide as to what my reaction is going to be, which are the lines written in front of me.
It’s not reading the lines out. It’s reacting to what they’re saying. My clue to what I’m going to say is written down in front of me.
And I think that’s terribly important. You know, reacting. And lots of people, you know, I look at people doing it and I go, no, you knew that. You knew your line was coming up. You can hear it. You can hear the reaction. You can hear it. You’re not making that up. You’re saying those lines because it’s a script.
And, you know, we’re all — I mean, I’m as guilty as anybody else, but I try hard not to be.
Tom: Are you allowed to paraphrase on The Archers? Because you must know your character better than some of the writers.
Tim: Yeah, we do a bit. I mean, not a huge amount, but yes. I mean, we can muddy it up a bit and elide and, you know, we’d say, “I wouldn’t use that word,” you know.
Because sometimes it does sound very scripted and it’s very hard, particularly when you’re kind of talking about some new disease that the animals have got, and you’ve got to come up with very long-winded Latin names and they’ve got to trip off your tongue. You know, you’ve got to make it so that, you know, that one — you know, bovine spongiform encephalopathy and the rest.
So, I mean, I’ve been doing it for 44 years, so I’ve kind of, you know, I have a facility with it. But yeah, I can’t totally change the lines, but muddy them up a bit here and there, yeah.
Abigoliah: With The Archers, because it’s such a beloved radio programme, are you ever in, like, a shop and someone hears your voice and they’re like, “Oh, it’s you”? Like, do you get recognised by your voice from The Archers?
Tim: Well, we’ve been doing this theatre tour now. And so we do Q&A on stage. And so some of the questions that you ask are fresh and we come up with a fresh reaction. But obviously some of them we’ve said — you know, are good stories we tend to regurgitate.
And somebody — I was just on Emma Freud’s Archers podcast, and a couple of the people had seen the show, and they say, “Well, what’s amazing is that it sounds to us like this is the first time you’ve told the story.”
And so part of the art of doing it is to make it sound like it’s the first time you’ve told that story.
But I’ll tell you — can I tell you my answer to that question? Have you ever been recognised?
Okay. So I was up in a place called Burnham Market in Norfolk, which is like Chelsea-on-Sea. It’s very posh. All Range Rovers.
And there was a lecture. A guy was doing a lecture about the Roman Empire, and it was from the Marxist perspective. And I went along because I’m interested in the Roman Empire.
And so I came into this meeting and this woman walked past me, and she was walking past, she said, “But there aren’t any Marxists in Burnham Market.”
It’s entirely true.
So anyway, he did his lecture and at the end of it there was a Q&A, and I asked a few questions. And this woman came up to me afterwards when they were having, you know, wine and cheese, and she said, “Oh God,” she said, “it was just extraordinary. I was sitting behind you when you were asking questions, and I closed my eyes and it was David. But you sounded so intelligent.”
Which did make me laugh. It made me realise how David comes across as being a bit thick, you know. So — but yeah, very occasionally. Not very often.
Abigoliah: Because you’ve acted across all — you’ve done all the mediums. You’re a Renaissance guy. You do theatre, you’ve done telly, you’ve done films, you’ve done radio. Do you have a preferred — preferred space?
Tim: Yeah. Filming is my preferred space now.
The last — I mean, you know, I’m 73 now and my memory is not as good as it was. And when I did Brexit with Tom up in Edinburgh, which was about eight years ago, which is the last theatre I’ve done, and I think I’ve — I think I’ve knocked it on the head now.
Because I remember standing in the wings before going on, and as the Prime Minister I was hardly off. I mean, I think I came off a couple of times, but I was pretty much on all the time, standing in the wings being scared.
You know, standing there being scared, and only not of doing the thing, but of drying, of forgetting my lines, you know. And I hated it. I didn’t want to do that.
And also the kind of — I’ve done theatre all my life, and after a bit I kind of get to the point where, you know, it’s like saying, I like doing improv. I like making it up. That’s what I like doing.
I like the first take of — you know, I like the rehearsal of — turn up to theatre and you do the read-through and you read it through and you do that the first time and you invent.
And then from then on, all the way through the rehearsal process, it’s like trying to get back to the freshness that you come up with at the read-through in order to be able to, on the first night, make it sound like it sounded at the read-through.
And then you do that every night, in our case for four weeks. And I’ve sort of — you know, and I get it. I totally get it. Every night you can hone it, you can make it better, you can get a laugh on that line, laugh on that line.
But I actually prefer turning up in front of a camera, doing it for the first time, maybe the second time. And then you do — you know, you do the wide shot and you do the mid and then you do the close-ups. So you maybe do it five times and then you move on to something else.
And that is my favourite. You know, to answer your question, what do you prefer doing? I prefer doing that.
And I love doing radio, but in terms of the excitement and the thrill of not having a script in front of you and, you know, learning it and knowing it, I find the most exciting thing.
I’ve just got a part in a short film which is all about conkers. And I’m the president of the Conker Association, and I’m bitter because in the last year I was beaten in the final by somebody who had cheated.
And I’m going to do it as a Brummie. So it’s going to be — I’ve never done it before, you know, and I’ve been working up in Birmingham for the last 44 years, so can I hear it in my head. So, you know, “You cheated. You know, your dad was a bloody cheat. He baked it in the oven. He put it in vinegar. He did something.”
And I’m so looking forward to doing that. And, you know, there’s no money in it whatsoever. But that’s why I signed up, is, you know, to be an actor.
And the main — you know, the big parts on telly that I used to do, you know, they’ve kind of — they’ve got quieter and I’m doing more bit parts here and there. So it’s nice to have a lead part in something that’s fun.
And also, yeah, to do something different. You know, do a different accent. It’s quite — you know, never done it before like that. But I can hear it in my head. I can hear that bloke, you know. It’s fun.
Tom: Do you remember, just going back to The Archers, do you remember how you got that part? Was that something that you were going after, or were you already doing lots of radio work? Did you have any idea you’d be doing it for getting on for, what, half a century?
Tim: Yeah. No, I didn’t. Absolutely didn’t.
I mean, I was on — I’d won the Carleton Hobbs Award from the Bristol Old Vic Theatre School, which is — every year the BBC do this bursary kind of thing. And it’s one boy and one girl get that, and that means six months on the radio rep company.
So winning that has totally changed my life. Completely.
Tom: I think my friend Dan Starkey might have won the same thing. He went to Bristol Old Vic and he was in the radio rep team for a couple of years.
Tim: Yeah. I know Dan, and yes, he did. That’s absolutely right.
Yeah. So, I mean, I’d done radio, but I’d never listened to an episode of The Archers.
Tom: Oh, really?
Tim: No. I’d never heard it before.
And so, no, I turned up there and they said — you know, I’m sort of trying to pretend that I knew what I was doing — and they said, “Okay, so this is the scene with Eddie Grundy. But Trevor Harrison, who plays Eddie Grundy, he can’t be here today. So can you play both parts?”
Okay. So what kind of character? I said, you know, “Of course I know Eddie Grundy, but just remind me — just remind me of his accent.”
And the producer said, “Oh,” he said, “just think all-purpose West Country. Put a lot of Rs into it.”
Tom: Yeah.
Tim: So I thought he said, “Put a lot of arse into it.” So I made him West Country and a bit kind of arsey like that. And it turned out to be sounding rather like Eddie Grundy being, like, full of himself.
Anyway, I got the part. So I thought that that was because of my brilliant on-the-fly Eddie Grundy.
And it wasn’t until literally about four years ago that I heard there was a clip of, “Oh, here’s an old Archers clip, and this is David Archer,” and so-and-so.
So I listened to it, and I listened. I thought, blimey. I said, God, but I sounded different in those days. I was so different. Not just younger, but different.
Hang on. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. It’s not me.
Tom: Yeah.
Tim: And it was the previous David Archer actor.
Tom: Regenerated.
Tim: Exactly. Like Doctor Who. He was called Nigel.
And what happened was that he left the programme — I don’t know why — and went away on an agricultural course in Holland. And when he came back, it was me.
And so I realised the only reason I got the part was because I sounded like him. You know, he sounded so like me. So that made me go, oh, it wasn’t because I was being brilliant at the audition. I was just a soundalike. That’s how they got me in.
Tom: Have you ever listened to The Archers? Do you know what we’re talking about?
Abigoliah: I mean, I know what it is. I’m good friends with Angela Barnes.
Tom: Oh, right. Tim, you’ll know—
Abigoliah: Because I think she’s on the tour with you guys doing — leading the Q&A, or she—
Tim: No, she fronts the whole thing. It’s her show. She’s so — she is so good. Her enthusiasm is what makes the show, and the fact that she is an absolute committed Archers fan. And she knows the programme really, really well.
Abigoliah: When she got the gig, she was like, this is my dream gig. This is the greatest thing. Like, she was so excited about it.
Tim: Yeah.
Abigoliah: But so, like, I know of The Archers through her. I hate to tell you, Tim, I haven’t listened to it, but—
Tim: Don’t. It’s perfectly all right.
Abigoliah: My fun fact — my introduction to your work, Tim, is seeing you in Brexit. That’s the first thing I had seen you in.
And, yeah, and you were great in that, by the way. I know you mentioned that theatre is — that was your last theatrical performance, and I’m really happy I got to witness it because it was such a good role. And you — you just were so good in it.
Tim: That means a lot. Thank you very much indeed.
I mean, I looked — do you remember they filmed one?
Tom: Yes.
Tim: There is that film of it. And I remember when they were filming it, I was thinking, I was really off that night. I was fluffing and getting things wrong.
And I watched it back and going, oh God, no, no, no, no, no.
I know I did better performances than that, but I’ve kind of gone, oh, damn.
But no, I mean, you know, who knows? Somebody might come along and say, look, here’s a script, like you did. You know, I was sort of not going to do theatre, and then Brexit came along and I looked at that. I thought, I’ve got to do this. I’ve absolutely got to. It’s such fun. It’s so good. I’ve got to — I’ve got to be in it.
So you never know. I might — I might — I might be persuaded to take a, you know, a few large drinks before I go on next time.
Tom: Dutch courage.
Tim: Yes.
Tom: Not too many.
Tim: No, not too many. Just enough.
Abigoliah: Something we do like to ask is, what are your influences as far as acting and comedy? Before it became your profession, were there certain people you looked up to or certain people you had a goal of working with when you became an actor?
Tim: No, I don’t think so, really.
I mean, it started off doing sketches at school, doing comedy sketches, which I would write, and I’d get, you know, friends together just to do end-of-term silly sketches, taking the mickey out of the teachers and things like that.
And then when I went to university, I did history of art at university. The only reason I did that was because I’d done modern languages at school, and I didn’t want to become a linguist, so I didn’t do modern languages at university.
So I thought, well, what am I going to do in my life? I thought, well, I’m not going to be a scientist. I’m going to be in the arts somewhere, so I better know something about art. So I did history of art.
But day one, Freshers’ Fair, I joined the Drama Society. And so then what happened was, for three years, I did a play every term for three years.
And at the end of that, you know, I came away with a 2:2 in history of art, and that was only pure luck. Pure luck.
The day before the exam, I’d gone to the library and taken a pin and thought, well, you know, of previous questions, gone, all right, I’ll learn about that one. And that one came up. Otherwise I’d have probably failed.
So I got a 2:2, but it was never my bag.
So after that I then took a year off again and then went to drama school at the Bristol Old Vic Theatre School for two years and completely loved it, you know.
And I just — it’s not so much that I wanted to work with people. I wanted to be an actor and I wanted to be on stage.
And, you know, it’s the same thing as any actor will tell you, any comedian will tell you: when you get a laugh — particularly the laughs, because you can hear it.
You know, if you do something tragic and it really hits home, you don’t hear that coming back to you on the stage. But when you’ve done something that’s really funny and you get a big belly laugh, that’s such a thrill. You want more of it, you know?
And I think that’s probably what made me do it. I love — you know, I do love comedy. I love comedy more than—
Tom: So who are your comedy heroes growing up? What was making you laugh as you sat around the living room with your family when you were a little boy?
Tim: Oh, blimey. What a question. I suppose Morecambe and Wise has got to be, isn’t it, really?
Abigoliah: I love Morecambe and Wise.
Tim: And what’s his name? Just that — just that—
Tom: Tommy Cooper.
Tim: Tommy Cooper. Tommy Cooper.
I mean, the people who can walk on stage and not say anything and get a big laugh, you know, that is — that’s the magic of it.
I mean, now, recently, I think Michael McIntyre is probably the most skilful and clever and funny comedian. You know, you watch what he does.
If you look at stuff that — I know that sketch, and I watch him, how he does it, and it’s so skilled and so professional and so as though he’s just, you know, thought of it. But it’s not. It’s crafted and honed and everything.
And they’re funny. It’s funny content.
You know, that whole thing about the funniest thing is when it’s unexpected. You know, when you don’t see it coming. That’s the thing that makes you laugh most.
You know, he does a sketch about parking in a disabled bay, and in order to be able to, you know, to convince them, he falls out of the car like that.
Abigoliah: So politically incorrect.
Tim: But so funny.
Yeah. I don’t know whether or not I had any kind of comedy heroes in that way. I probably think, the moment this is finished, I’ll come up with something and come back to you on it.
But no, it was really — you know, and you’re right. I’ve put my finger in every pie, you know. I’ve played James Bond. You know, there’s a tick. Tick the box. Die happy.
Tom: And Doctor Who.
Tim: And Doctor Who. Well, I have, yeah. I’ve been the legs—
Tom: Of Doctor Who. Exactly, yes. Lying under the console.
Tim: That’s it.
There’s — I don’t know if you’ve seen it. It’s up online. I filmed the guy who built that console, and he was there, and I said, “Can you talk me through it?” and so on.
He’s on the phone and he’s going around the console showing me how he built the whole thing, which, you know, for Who fans, Whovians, is gold dust.
And that — yeah, it was great being that. And yeah, it was all — all the cameramen were all the original camera— They’re all guys in their sixties and seventies who filmed it in the first place.
Tom: Amazing.
Tim: And with — yeah, that was great.
Yeah, so I have ticked quite a few. Been there, done that.
I mean, you know, I’m the voice of “Mind the gap” on the Piccadilly line. At least I was.
Abigoliah: You were the voice of “Mind the gap”?
Tom: Whoa.
Tom: Now I’m impressed.
Abigoliah: Yeah. I was going to say, I feel like that might not be the one to be like, wow, but, like, you hear those announcements and you’re like, who does that? You know, who got hired for that?
Tim: And I thought I was — I thought I was in the money. I mean, I literally was a voiceover and they said — my agent said, “It’s train announcements.”
Okay. So I turn up to these guys and I said, “So, train announcements?” And they said, “Yes, that’s right, that’s right.”
I said, “What, ‘Mind the gap’?” And they said, “Yeah, that too.”
Really?
So, yeah: “Please mind the gap. This is Heathrow. The next station is Covent Garden. Please stand clear of the closing doors.”
And that was on the Piccadilly line for something like 12 years.
And so I thought, well, hey, we’re in the money, you know. And I rang the agent afterwards and I said, “So, you know, what’s the usage on that?”
She said, “Oh no, no. There’s no usage. £250 buyout.”
Abigoliah: Oh.
Tom: Should get residuals for each swipe—
Abigoliah: Of the Oyster card.
Tim: Right. Absolutely right. That’s what it should have been.
My boys used to travel on the Piccadilly line, you know, and they’d have the voice of their father watching out—
Tom: I wonder if that makes them more likely or less likely to obey the commands.
Tim: To obey the commands? “No, I’m going to go through the gap here.”
And I’ve always thought, if I ever missed the gap and fell into the gap and was injured, that that would be a headline. You know, “‘Mind the gap’ voice falls into the gap.”
Tom: Yes. You literally only have yourself to blame.
Tim: I didn’t listen to myself.
Tom: Yes.
Tim, there’s a couple of questions that we like to finish on, and I don’t think I gave you advance warning of these. So I’ll mention them now. And if you need time to think, maybe one of us can think of another question to ask you.
But one question is: as a thank you to you for coming on and doing this for not even a buyout — no fee at all — we’d like you to nominate a charity that means something to you that our listeners might want to contribute to.
Tim: Yeah.
Tom: And then the other question is, I’m taking Abigoliah on this tour of British comedy. There are some big hitters which we ticked off straight away, things like Fawlty Towers, Monty Python’s Flying Circus, On the Hour with Chris Morris, The Day Today from Chris and Armando.
Are there any other shows which you think we might have forgotten about, which are things that you spotted which are worth mentioning?
Tim: Oh, damn. You should have— Yes, you should have prepared me for this because—
Tom: Sorry about that.
Tim: No, because, I mean, I would have gone straight on, you know, to Python, right from the word go.
I mean, just to say on the point, I remember being at university and watching Monty Python every week. There it was on, and we’d all go down to the television room because nobody had, you know, computers, or— There was a television room. We all watched it together.
And every week it was so inconsistent, in that it was a half-hour show. Probably 80% of it was not funny, you know, was not very good.
But there were these gems within it which were absolutely brilliant. And those are the ones that got remembered.
And then, of course, the movies, which are, you know, absolutely incomparable. Life of Brian and—
Abigoliah: Holy Grail.
Tim: Holy Grail. Probably the best things ever made.
But yeah, that was the thing. A lot of dross in those early television ones.
Tom: Yeah. Well, they’re churning out — they’re doing 13 a year, pretty much consecutively. That’s not easy.
But they were very smart, I think, about noticing which ones were the good ones and then endlessly repurposing them, doing them in sketch films and on live tours and on record albums and tea towels and so on and so on and so on.
Tim: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. And, you know, Fawlty Towers, which is peerless. I mean, as far as I’m concerned, it’s just — it’s probably the best thing ever made.
Abigoliah: I really loved Fawlty Towers. And the first thing Tom showed me was Monty Python’s Flying Circus. And of course, I’ve seen both the films, and I’ve even seen the Holy Grail musical on Broadway.
Tim: Okay.
Abigoliah: And so I was, like, really ready for it. And we sat down and I was like, well, they look like they’re having fun up there.
It just — I feel like if I’d seen it, like, earlier in my life, I probably would have been like, this is amazing. But at that point I was like, can we watch the movie instead, please?
Tim: Yeah, yeah. You — yeah. It’s so many in-jokes, aren’t there? It’s — that rely on you knowing them.
Tom: And any charity that you support, Tim?
Tim: Yeah. I’ll give you the link to it. It’s the Brain Tumour Charity.
Tom: Oh, yes.
Tim: And that’s because my daughter-in-law Rebecca, she — in the early days of their relationship, she had a brain tumour and she had an operation. And it was, you know, touch and go and really heavy.
And so she’s been supported by that charity a lot since.
And so I was with the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children for a long time, but then this is my chosen charity.
Tom: Lovely. Very good.
All right. Well, anything else, Tim, which you came to say which you didn’t get to say?
Tim: I don’t think so. I mean, you know, you said that the overall subject is comedy. And yes, I do worry about comedy these days because you have to be so careful.
And, you know, you’ve got things like old comedies that come out which are now being censored. And, you know, “You can’t say that anymore. You can’t say that these days.”
And I do worry about that because I think if it’s funny, it’s funny.
And I think, yes, I get it, if you’re insulting people, then probably not. I mean, the perfect example is the Major in Fawlty Towers.
Tom: Yes.
Tim: And as Cleese says, you know, I’m not saying that this is how people should be, but this is how people are. And this is how people were, and this is how they spoke.
But you can’t say that now. And so I do worry now about young comedians. They’re really constrained.
And I, you know, yes, be constrained so you don’t hurt people. But then there’s a whole argument about whether or not people’s hurt feelings are a thing.
You know, I don’t care about hurting your feelings, you know, because that’s you. That’s your — that’s your—
I mean, like, you know, insulting religion. You know, there’s a thing. You know, it’s very difficult to know how to do that because you’re insulting somebody’s religion. But if you don’t believe in their religion, then that’s their thing. It’s not your thing.
Abigoliah: I just want to jump in as a comedian. Like, I feel like the conversation, “You can’t say anything these days,” or what we can and can’t say, is a big conversation that’s happening online.
And, of course, it’s happening in commissioning offices and what we’re showing of old stuff. However, in comedy clubs, it’s still going. Like, people are saying what they want to say.
And there is, like — obviously people are aware they don’t want to hurt people’s feelings and stuff like that. But I would encourage listeners to go to live comedy and see what people are doing live on stage, because that is — that is still a place where we are — we’re — we’re speaking our truths.
Tim: Yeah.
Abigoliah: We’re speaking, you know—
Tim: Well, that’s really good to hear. No, seriously, I’m really pleased to hear that because I haven’t been to a comedy gig for a long time.
I mean, you’ve got Angela fronting our, you know, our show.
Abigoliah: Yeah.
Tim: And she’s naughty, you know. And yeah, even within The Archers, you know, she’s — and she’s very, very funny.
But, you know, funny is funny. You know, that’s—
Abigoliah: Yeah.
Tom: Are tickets on sale for The Archers tour at the moment? You want to give it a quick plug?
Tim: Yes, they are. I will tell you. Boom boom boom.
Okay, so Chichester on the 31st of this month, and then Aylesbury, Coventry and our final hurrah at Wolverhampton, which is between the 24th and the 26th of November.
Tom: And where should people go for tickets?
Tim: Fane Productions. F-A-N-E. Go to Fane Productions, who are organising the entire thing.
Tom: We’ll put a link in the show notes.
Tim: Yeah. It’s good. It’s fun. And people really enjoy it, you know. They really do.
And there’s a lot of love in the room. That’s the thing. It’s like a rock concert because it’s not like going to a play where there are all these strangers. You’re in a room full of fellow Archers lovers, you know, and you’ve got all this in common.
And you can feel that coming from the audience. You can feel this love of the programme.
It’s unlike anything I’ve ever done on stage before, where anything you say is going to, you know, be loved, as it were.
Yeah. Just a lot of love in the room. It’s great.
Tom: Well, here’s to the next 44 years of David Archer.
Tim: Yeah, yeah.
Abigoliah: Thanks so much for coming on, Tim.
Tom: Tim, thank you so much.
Tim: Really, really good fun. Thank you so much for asking me.
Tom: Cheers.
Okay. Yeah, he’s such a gent, isn’t he? Really. Oh, he’s — I really enjoyed working with him, and I really enjoyed chatting with him again today.
Shall I tell you, Abigoliah, very briefly about him playing the legs of Doctor Who?
Abigoliah: Yeah. So — which, by the way, by the way, my dream is coming true that we collect all of the Doctors—
Tom: Who.
Abigoliah: —without— I want to interview every Doctor Who without ever seeing Doctor Who, just to rub it in on my Who-fan friends.
Tom: This is definitely an ersatz Doctor Who. But there was a story in the 1970s that was not completed due to a strike. So about three-quarters of it was shot.
And then people have made various attempts over the years to try and patch it together and release it.
And the most recent one involved reassembling most of the actors to recreate the bits of script in audio and then using animation for the visuals.
There was a special Easter egg at the end where an extra bit of live action was seen, and a now 80-something-year-old Tom Baker pops up from behind the TARDIS console and gives a final wink at the camera.
But Tom Baker, being quite elderly, they wanted a stand-in, and they also wanted to preserve, “Oh, it really is actual Tom Baker,” until the very last shot.
So the early part of that scene — the whole scene only lasts about a minute — is just a pair of legs sticking out from underneath the TARDIS console in full Doctor Who costume.
And those legs were Tim Bentinck’s.
Abigoliah: Oh, lovely. Amazing. Thanks for filling in those gaps for me because I — you were so excited when you guys were talking about it, I was like, I’m just gonna nod for a bit.
Tom: We’re getting closer and closer to All Doctor Who Explained, but I doubt we’ll ever get there.
Abigoliah: No, no, no. That’s the spin-off series. Would we have the money to pay for two series? We’ll do All Doctor Who—
Tom: When we’ve finished watching all the British television comedy and we’ve exhausted the supply.
Abigoliah: Yeah. Which, you know, we’re getting close to the end.
No, we’re not. Of course.
Well, Tim, of course, is on tour with The Archers right now, which he said at the end. But Tom Salinsky, tell me about The Gang of Three.
Tom: Yes. The Gang of Three is on tour at the moment. So if any of these dates are in the future, because of course you might be listening to this at any time, then you can come along and see The Gang of Three.
We are at the Oxford Playhouse, 27th to the 31st of October 2026; the Arts Theatre, Cambridge, 3rd to the 7th of November; the Chichester Festival Theatre from the 10th to the 14th; and the Yvonne Arnaud Theatre in Guildford, 17th to the 21st.
And this is my play about three big beasts of the Labour Party in the 1970s scrapping to see who could become leader, and I’m happy to say it’s been very well reviewed.
Abigoliah: I’m very happy for you, as it should be, because it is brilliant.
Guys, thank you so much again for joining us here on All British Comedy Explained. A couple of ways you can support the show.
One, if you’re listening on your podcatcher app, leave us a five-star review. Helps other people find the show.
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And, of course, we have the Patreon and other paid services. That’s now spreading out a lot and I’m very confused by it, and I’m glad you’re in charge of it. So over to you, Tom.
Tom: Yeah. So you can now subscribe via Patreon, via YouTube Memberships or via Apple Podcasts. It all basically comes down to the same thing.
For £3 a month, you get ad-free listening or watching, and for £5 a month you get special bonus monthly episodes.
If you are going down the Patreon route, which is the first one we did and it’s sort of where we’re still focusing our attention, do remember that it is cheaper if you subscribe via the website, because if you subscribe on an Apple device, Apple add on an extra 30%. So through the website is your best bet.
And then join us there. We’ve got a nice little community going. You also get to vote on things. Like this season there was a Patreon vote to determine whether we should watch W1A or Brass Eye at the end of the series.
Now, this actually turned out to be a dead heat. And so I had the casting vote. So it’s still democracy in action, is what I’m saying. But ultimately I got what I wanted.
Abigoliah: And we’ll have — we have democracy. We have another poll coming up.
Tom: Exactly.
Abigoliah: That’s right. And also, like, we appreciate your support for this podcast however you support it. We know these add-ons aren’t available to everyone.
However, I will say, as Christmas is around the corner, you can ask for Patreon memberships as a gift, and people can gift them to you through Patreon with, like, a little link and stuff.
So I just want to say that’s out there. If you know someone who would like a membership, or if you are someone who’d want a membership, you can always ask — ask Santa Claus.
Tom: All right. I think that’s gonna wrap it up.
Abigoliah: All right. I’ll see you next time.
Tom: Bye for now.